In any case, *if* “a gay guy who sleeps with women” is “bi”, then there’s no particular reason for Jay (for instance) to leave his wife and embark on his fulfilling life as a gay man… since there certainly are married bisexuals. If you’re going to pick the terms, at least apply them consistently, and base them on *all* the data that people make available in the form of earlier posts. (I don’t particularly care how the labels wind up defined, it’s just annoying to hear sloppy usage of them.)

Now, as for your reasons for commenting – You do not feel “diminished” by “gay men in the closet”. We have established that we do not know each other, and likely don’t care to know each other. Therefore, my sexuality and my “analysis” of it are entirely irrelevant to you, whether you agree or not. And it seems unlikely that we will ever agree on it, nor do I particularly care whether we do or not. So why keep wasting your time?

As far as swear words go – I’m mature enough to handle them. But if you really can’t express the same idea more creatively using other words, then did it really need to be said at all? But don’t worry, I’ve edited you for the last time.

And yes, in retrospect the “daydreaming” bit was a cheap shot.

Yes? then your advice to Jay was foolish and cruel.

No? it’s a bit biased to suppose it only works “one way”. That’s okay, you understand that “sexual orientation” is as simple as “have you ever done ____ with another male”, regardless of who, when, why, where, or anything else… and that “have you ever done anything with a woman” is irrelevant. “Straightness” isn’t catching, only gayness. (Double standard much?)

Oh, I forgot! other guys’ bodies carry special cooties and if any of there cooties get on me then they turn me gay.

Really, can we please move beyond the second grade playground level?

And as far as my attitude and this site – I’m hardly “sniveling”, wherever the “side lines” are. (Do you think it’s all some kind of game? Stop daydreaming about big sweaty men and use your brain.) I have no intention of you, or anyone else, doing “all the work”.

What work? I don’t intend this as some big group therapy session. This is my site where I write about whatever I like. People are welcome to read and comment, but I neither expect nor require “therapy” from random strangers. And people are welcome to comment only so long as they can avoid needless profanity… if you can’t express yourself clearly with grownup words, then don’t bother trying.

Profanity redacted, again. Strike 2. — Ed.

Personally, I’ve found gay guys to be about as lust-driven as straight guys… which is to say, “not entirely, all the time”. I also don’t consider anyone’s sexual orientation to be his (or her) defining characteristic. (Perhaps that’s part of my “heterosexual ideal.”) In other words, I don’t consider the case of a gay guy who got married (to a woman) and now is thinking about leaving her (because he’s gay) to be fundamentally different from the case of a straight guy who got married (to a woman) and now is thinking about leaving her (because he’s attracted to another woman).

(That’s not meant as comment or judgement on Jay, or anyone else. Both are hard situations to be in.)

Finally, if you’ve actually *read* my blog, instead of just this one post, then you might wonder how purely hetero my ideals are. For one thing, I’ve consistently pointed out that “straight” behavior includes a surprising set of ways for guys to relate to each other, and a surprising set of limitations as well…. and that it’s not just “straight” behavior that places the limits.

Immaturity sees only two places in the world – “here, by me” and “there, away from me”. Maturity says “there’s a lot of places in the world, aren’t there?” Immaturity says “we start from different ideas, we can never agree”. Maturity says “let’s examine both our ideals and see if they’re really THAT different.”

But you’re right about one thing… we do disagree. Congrats for figuring that out!

Profanity is neither needed nor welcome on this site. — Ed.

I think you may be right. Perhaps its impossible to relate with a man in a certain way when you are a man. I realise at this point that I need to listen to a man who is married to another man and hear how it came about, how they felt before and how they feel after (getting married).

I am also wondering if I am not going to “wait forever”. The few times my girlfriend has come around for “a few days”. Those few days feel so long and I wonder how it would be if she was to stay “here” for life.

Not enough time to comment properly. Maybe later.

It’s difficult for guys to bond emotionally in the right way for “marriage” (or “partnership” or whatever people want to call it). It’s easier for us to bond as friends/buddies; i.e., without romance. That romantic bond requires meeting each others’ needs in a different way, and it’s a way of complementing each other that (I think) is most easily met when there’s a significant difference in traits which get lumped together as “masculinity” and “femininity”. When both guys are about the same level, there’s not much force there for that kind of attachment.

(In my head there’s a whole lot of chemistry stuff tied in with this as an analogy, but then that’s true in my head about most stuff. I can try to post about that if anyone’s really curious. Really really curious.)

Peeling away a bit of the stereotyping there… Guys tend to offer, and require, certain things from a relationship. What we can offer is not always the same as what we require. It’s like trying to build a house with a friend, and both of you bring a hammer and some wood, but nobody’s got windows, nails and paint. You can pile the wood together any way you want, but it’s not gonna hold together as a house.

(That was not really intended to be suggestive. Sorry! Wait, no I’m not.)

In my case (since that’s the one I know about), neither one of us is “hyper masculine”, but neither one of us is really feminine either. (He’s perhaps a bit more so.) So as much as I might wish, for the sake of convenience and simplicity and stuff, that I *could* feel that romantic attraction for him… or at least what I’ve felt in the past by way of “romantic” love… it really doesn’t “take”. (I suppose I could go find a more feminine guy, but frankly I think I don’t think I could get into a guy like that in any kind of way at all.)

As far as marriage to a woman goes – I haven’t tried it, yet, so I don’t know. My impression is that waiting until you know ALL the answers (about yourself, about her, about marriage, about the future) means waiting forever. We don’t even know all the questions, before marriage! On the other hand, there’s a lot of other times we have to jump into what we know to be right and useful (and fun, too, once we’re used to it) — starting a new job, or a new school, or moving to a new city. An apt comparison right now for me, since I’m about to do all three…